APPROVED

 

PLAN COMMISSION

December 4, 2008

Troy Town Hall @ 7:00 p.m.

Hudson Wisconsin  54016

 

 

Members Present:     Ray Knapp, Jan Cuccia, Joe Duerre, David Wolf, Bob Rolle, Mark Mitchell

 

Members Absent:      Paul Mahler (excused)

 

Staff Present:             Rob Jones, Cedar Corp.

 

Recording Secretary:           Sharon Weide

 

Others present:          John and Mary Delaney, Ron Carlson, Becky Lopez, Mark Moelter, Greg Moelter, Carol Hardin, Paul Steiner, Nancy Carlson.  Others were present who did not sign in.

 

 

Call to Order

Ray Knapp called the meeting of the Town of Troy Plan Commission to order at 7:00 p.m. followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

AGENDA: 

  1. Approve Minutes; 
  2. Acknowledgement of applications for action as regulated by SDO;
  3. Concept review – L & I, J & G Moelter Family Trust, Hwy 35 & Glover Rd.;
  4. Riverway concept review/public hearing for a variance for the disturbance of slopes greater than 12% for the replacement of a septic system – Robert and Tom Lee, 190 Cove Rd.,
  5. Riverway concept review/public hearing for reconstruction in a non-conforming area – Mary Delaney, 155 Glenmont Rd.;
  6. Riverway concept review/public hearing for an after-the-fact permit for reconstruction in a non-conforming area – Andrew Murphy, 326 North Cove Rd.;
  7. Review suggested subdivision ordinance revisions;
  8. Building Permits/Utility Permits;
  9. Committee Reports & correspondence;
  10. Adjourn;

 

1.      Approve Minutes;

 

Members of the Plan Commission reviewed the minutes of the November 6 Plan Commission meeting. 

 

Jan Cuccia moved to approve the minutes of the November 6, 2008, Plan Commission meeting.  David Wolf seconded.  Motion passed, all in favor.

 

2.      Acknowledgement of applications for action as regulated by SDO;

 

There were none.

 

3.      Concept review – L & I, J & G Moelter Family Trust, Hwy 35 & Glover Rd.;

 

Mark Moelter represented the L & I, J & G Moelter Family Trust.  He explained that the Trust is interested in general feedback from the Plan Commission on how their property would be affected once the overpass at Glover Road is constructed.  There are three parcels of land that are affected, one on the west side of the Highway 35 and two on the east side.  The Plan Commission was given colored maps to review. 

 

Mr. Moelter’s first concern was with the parcel on the west side of the freeway.  He stated that once the southbound exit is built this parcel will be landlocked.  Ray Knapp mentioned that in the past the DOT has been supportive of land swaps amongst land owners and this is probably what the Town would encourage, since it has responsibility for this off-ramp.  There was additional discussion around potential future commercial development in that area and possible access via a frontage road from the south.  Ray wrapped up the discussion by saying that this may be a 15 to 20 year project and that at this point no one knows if the land will be zoned Ag, Res, or Commercial.  He went on to say that once the DOT has mapped this out there will be no building allowed in the defined road way.

 

From there the Plan Commission turned their attention to the two parcels to the east of Hwy. 35.  Mark Moelter said that in discussions with the DOT they indicated they would most likely buy the northernmost parcel.  Ray encouraged Mark to get back to the DOT and press them to make sure they purchase that parcel as it will not be a buildable lot due to parcel size.  The southernmost parcel will also be landlocked due to the northbound entrance to Hwy. 35 which would be built by the Town.  Ray stated that the Town would most likely have to buy that parcel due to the lack of access.  The Moelter’s agreed that the off-ramp project is planned for so far off into the future that it is almost impossible to determine what type of development would take place at the Glover-STH 35 intersection.

 

4.      Riverway concept review/public hearing for a variance for the disturbance of slopes greater than 12% for the replacement of a septic system – Robert and Tom Lee, 190 Cove Rd.,

 

Rob Jones explained that this is a concept review for a variance to allow for filling and grading in a slope preservation zone in order to replace a private waste water treatment system.  He said that the owners will replace the existing septic with an updated septic system and be constructed in accordance with Commerce Chapter 83 and the St. Croix County Sanitation Code.  He stressed that the principal concern tonight should be that the project comply with the requirements of 171-j.5(b).  He added that this is a similar proposal to two applications reviewed in January 2008, and that most of the discussion should revolve around the protection of the existing vegetation. Ray Knapp then led the Plan Commission through a review of the maps provided that detailed the layout of the new septic system.

 

Paul Steiner, who worked on the previous two septic applications and represents the applicants, explained that the septic system must be located on the north side of the cabin as soil borings taken to the west determined that the soils there were unacceptable.  There will be 4 trees removed north of the septic system, two 5” elms, one 2” elm, and a 3” elm.  This is necessary to facilitate installation of the trenches.

 

Mark Mitchell asked why a holding tank wasn’t proposed.  Mr. Steiner explained that the soils on this site were acceptable where the proposed system is to be installed and that holding tanks were generally considered as a last resort by St. Croix County due to the fact that they need to be pumped on a regular basis and that there is the possibility of undetected failure.

 

Joe Duerre asked how the construction equipment would be brought into the site.  Mr. Steiner said that the equipment would be brought down the path to the site.  He stated that the only disturbance would be rubber tire tracks and no trees would be removed.

 

Ray Knapp opened the public hearing for a variance for the disturbance of slopes greater than 12% for the replacement of a septic system – Robert and Tom Lee, 190 Cove Rd., at 7:50 PM.  No one came forward to speak.  The public hearing was closed.

 

Jan Cuccia asked if the Plan Commission wanted to have replacements planted for the four trees that are being removed.  Bob Rolle suggested that the applicant document that there are trees every 12 feet across the front of the property.  The Plan Commission reviewed the information that Rob Jones felt should be included as part of the Riverway Application.  The applicant should include, along with previously provided documentation:

    • A more complete vegetation management plan, illustrating exactly how the existing vegetation and visual screening will be impacted due to the proposed construction,
    • Verification that the private wastewater treatment system requirements of Commerce Chapter 83 and St. Croix County have been satisfied,
    • Photographs clearly showing the existing vegetation in the proposed areas of filling and grading, and
    • Assurance that trees are planted every 12 feet across the front of the property.

 

5.      Riverway concept review/public hearing for reconstruction in a non-conforming area – Mary Delaney, 155 Glenmont Rd.;

 

Mary Delaney, applicant explained that one half of this bunk-house has been on-site for 90 years.  The other half of this structure is about 40 years old.  The oldest portion of this structure is badly deteriorated and beginning to collapse.  They want to tear down that portion and replace it with a closed in sitting porch.  The sound portion of the structure would be used as a bunk house for grand children to sleep, the sitting porch would be used by the children’s parents as a place to relax and enjoy themselves.  She stated that this building cannot be seen from the river and that the plan is to keep it that way.

 

Rob Jones explained the layout of the site by drawing a picture of it on the white board.  Ray Knapp verified with the applicant that there is electricity in this building, but no water.  He then reviewed the drawings submitted with the application and clarified that the applicant is asking that the old steps be removed and the building squared off.  This would increase the foot print of the building.

 

Rob Jones reviewed the engineering comments.  He said that this request is to reconstruct a portion of a bunk house adjacent to a home in the Riverway.  He added that the Plan Commission has previously discussed whether these secondary structures should be classified as accessory structures or as part of the principal structure.  While a nonconforming accessory structure may not be reconstructed or structurally altered, a nonconforming principal structure may be reconstructed if the Town has determined that he requirements of 171-L.3 have been met.  Rob went on to say that the DNR was going to offer feedback as to whether day cabins were accessory structures or principal structures but that he has not received that feedback yet.  As such, the Plan Commission may want to include as a caveat that the Town will continue to seek input from the DNR. 

 

After additional discussion it was clarified that if the bunkhouse is considered part of the principal structure it could be reconstructed to the same size it is now without a variance.  However, if it is considered an accessory structure only ordinary repair and maintenance can be done without a variance.  If this building is considered a principal structure the following criteria are critical:

    • The reconstruction must be within the same footprint
    • The height of the structure cannot be increase
    • The color must comply with the color standards of the ordinance
    • A  mitigation plan must be submitted with the application
    • The private waste water treatment system on site must be analyzed to insure that it is in compliance or brought into compliance
    • An erosion control plan and re-vegetation plan must be submitted with the permit

 

 

Ray asked if the Plan Commission wanted to hear back from the DNR prior to giving feedback to the Delaneys.  Members felt they were comfortable with defining this as a principal structure and as such that the applicant could reconstruct as long as it is within the existing footprint.  They applicant was cautioned that the DNR has not given a definitive response and may disagree.  If so, the DNR position would be an overriding factor.

 

Ray Knapp opened the public hearing for reconstruction in a non-conforming area – Mary Delaney, 155 Glenmont Rd., at 8:24 PM.

 

Ron Carlson, member of the local Sierra Club asked what St. Croix County’s role in the variance was.

Bob Rolle explained that this is not a variance request unless the applicant expands the structure and in that case the applicant would need to show hardship.  However, the applicants need to contact Saint Croix County and start the County application process.

 

Ron Carlson then said that the Town’s Riverway Ordinance would allow the occupied portion of a detached garage to be considered a principal structure while the County’s ordinance does not.  Ray Knapp agreed that there are multiple layers of review when it comes to the Riverway and the applicants need to contact the County.

 

The public hearing was closed at 8:31 PM.

 

John Delaney, co-applicant, asked if a person could repair one wall at a time.  Ray Knapp said that was not in line with the spirit of the ordinance.  Rob Jones read from the ordinance and explained what ordinary repair and maintenance entailed.  Mr. Delaney went on to ask in regards to a variance, which organization actually grants it.  He was told that the Plan Commission would make a recommendation to the Town Board of Appeals and that they would make the final determination.  However, the Plan Commission made it clear that a hardship did not exist and receiving a variance would be unlikely.

 

In summary, Ray stated that the general consensus was that this building would be part of the principal structure and could be reconstructed in the same foot print, but that input is still need from the DNR.  Also, as Mr. Carlson suggested, the applicant should go to County Planning and Zoning and talk with their staff to find out how they would interpret this.  If the applicant submits a Riverway Application it should include:

§         A professional scale drawing showing all pertinent information

§         Any proposed alterations of vegetation and topography or notes saying that there will be no alterations

§         Photos of the site taken from the middle of the river, slightly upstream and downstream of the property

§         An erosion control plan

§         A vegetation management plan

§         Location of the proposed on-site wastewater treatment system and private water supply information (this must be brought up to code and sized for the number of persons on the property)

 

The applicant was told that the DNR web site has technical standards for erosion control plans. 

 

6.      Riverway concept review/public hearing for an after-the-fact permit for reconstruction in a non-conforming area – Andrew Murphy, 326 North Cove Rd.;

 

Rob Jones explained that this item is an after the fact permit application for the reconstruction of a stairway and landing to provide pedestrian access to the river and the replacement of a deck with a reduced footprint.  The deck appears as if it would have been classified as a nonconforming accessory structure and would not have been structurally altered, reconstructed, or expanded without a variance.  He went on to say that the Town may want to discuss, among other issues, the following aspects of the application:

    • The lower deck has been rebuilt with portions as a concrete patio and portions as an above ground wooden deck.  This appears to have a reduced footprint from the previous deck.
    • The Town has requested engineered drawings detailing the footings and verifying that the size geometric requirements are met for stairways serving the river.  It appears that the landing is larger in size than the ordinance permits.
    • A variance approval should determine that the reconstructed structure will be visually inconspicuous from the river and that the Plan Commission may want to discuss how the addition of lighting to the structure affects the inconspicuousness.

 

Ray asked how Rob determined that the above ground wooded deck was reduced in size from the previous deck.  Rob responded that before and after photos would lead you to that conclusion.  Ray then shared before and after photos that the owner had provided with the application.  There was general consensus that it appeared that no vegetation was removed and that the deck did, in fact, appear to be smaller.  Mark Mitchell asked if based on past experience the Plan Commission would have granted a variance for this project.  Ray Knapp commented that a variance might have been issued if the deck was unsafe.  There was discussion about whether the pictures indicated that the deck was a safety concern or not.  The applicant states that it was and that joists were rotting from contact with the ground, however the pictures do not indicate that.  The applicant was asked how the after the fact application came about.  Nancy Carlson, co-applicant said that they are trying to sell the house and the real estate agent wanted to see the permit.

 

She went on to say that the project began on impulse, that a nephew (who is in the construction business) had completed the work for them.  She apologized for not getting a riverway or building permit

 

Jan Cuccia asked for clarification about the added lighting.  Ms. Carlson said that the lighting goes down to the tram and that she doesn’t feel that it can be seen from the river during the summer.

 

Ray Knapp asked if her nephew in the construction business really had no idea that a permit would be required for a project of this scope.  Ms. Carlson said, no, he didn’t.  Ray added that this project would have required a building permit even if it was outside of the Riverway.

 

Ray Knapp opened the public hearing for an after-the-fact permit for reconstruction in a non-conforming area – Andrew Murphy, 326 North Cove Rd. at 9:15 PM.  No one came forward to speak.  The public hearing was closed.

 

After further discussion the Plan Commission agreed that the applicant could move forward with an after the fact Riverway Application.  Bob Rolle and Jan Cuccia would like to see the light replaced with downward facing lamps.  The applicant agreed to do this.

 

The application should be for a variance for reconstruction of a non-conforming accessory structure (the deck) and an after the fact conditional use permit for the construction of the stairway.  As part of the application the following additional information will be required:

§         A scale drawing showing all pertinent information for the steps and the landing with details of the posts and signed off by an engineer that the footings are done to code

§         Photos of the site taken from the middle of the river, slightly upstream and downstream of the property

§         A construction plan for the stairways and landing

§         An extensive library of photos showing the vegetation all around this area.

 

Other than Joe Duerre, the consensus was that a citation should be issued.  The applicant was also instructed to contact St. Croix County Planning and Zoning.

 

7.      Review suggested subdivision ordinance revisions;

 

This item was tabled until the January 5, 2009 meeting.  Mark Mitchell will send an electronic colored copy of the ordinance to the Town Hall for distribution.

 

8.      Building Permits/Utility Permits;

 

Members of the Plan Commission reviewed the building permits, there were no utility permits.

 

9.      Committee Reports & correspondence;

 

Ray Knapp handed out the updated Riverway Ordinance.  Jan Cuccia reported that approval from the DNR has been received.

 

Jan Cuccia reported that she read an article in the River Falls paper stating that the City of River Falls is making changes to the ETZ. 

 

Bob Rolle gave an update on the final changes being made to the Comprehensive Plan.

 

10.  Adjourn;

 

David Wolf moved to adjourn the meeting of the December 4 Plan Commission at   PM.  Joe Duerre seconded.  Motion passed, all in favor.