APPROVED                   PLAN COMMISSION

                                                           February 5, 2009

                                                  Troy Town Hall @ 7:00 p.m.

                                                     Hudson Wisconsin 54016

 

Members Present: Ray Knapp, Jan Cuccia, David Wolf, Joe Duerre, Mark Mitchell,

                                 Paul Mahler

Members Absent:  Bob Rolle (excused)

 

Staff Present:         Rob Jones, Cedar Corp.  

 

Recording Secretary:      Becky Lopez    

 

Others Present:     Louie Filkins, Charlie Macdonell, Andy Murphy, Nancy Carlson

                               

Call to Order

Ray Knapp called the meeting of the Town of Troy Planning Commission to order at 7:00 p.m. followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

AGENDA: 

1.       Approve Minutes; 

2.       Acknowledgement of applications for action as regulated by SDO;

3.       Riverway review/public hearing for construction in a conforming area – YMCA, 532 CTH F;

4.       Riverway review/public hearing for a variance for the disturbance of slopes greater than 12% for the replacement of a septic system – Robert and Tom Lee, 190 Cove Rd.,

5.       Riverway review/public hearing for an after-the-fact permit for a variance/conditional use for reconstruction of a non-conforming accessory structure – Andrew Murphy, 326 North Cove Rd.;

6.       Review & revise sections of draft Comprehensive Plan

7.       Building Permits/Utility Permits;

8.       Committee Reports & correspondence;

9.       Adjourn;

 

 

1.             Approve Minutes;

              Minutes of the January 8, 2009 Plan Commission Meeting were reviewed.     

              

             Mark Mitchell moved to approve the minutes of the January 8, 2009 Plan

             Commission. Jan Cuccia seconded. Motion passed, all in favor.

 

2.            Acknowledgement of applications for action as regulated by SDO;

There were none.

 

 3.         Riverway review/public hearing for construction in a conforming area – YMCA,

             532 CTH F;

 

It was decided by the members of the Plan Commission to delay discussion of this until later in the meeting, as no representatives from the YMCA were present to speak.

4.         Riverway review/public hearing for a variance for the disturbance of slopes greater

      than 12% for the replacement of a septic system –Robert and Tom Lee, 190 Cove

            Rd.;    

 

Ray Knapp asked the members of the PC to review the concept review notes from the December 4, 2008 meeting to refresh their memories on this request. He reminded them that this property was located near two other properties which have replaced their septic systems in the past 2 years, and that the work to be done for this one is being done by the same plumber, Paul Steiner.

   

Rob Jones informed the PC that the Applicant is now seeking a variance for filling and grading in a slope preservation zone, which needs to be approved by the Town Board of Appeals. The Town could not meet the required notice time to have a February Town Board of Appeals, and so after PC review and Public Hearing of this request, the recommendation of the PC will be heard at a March Town Board of Appeals meeting.

 

In December during the Concept Review, the Plan Commission requested a more complete vegetation management plan, as well as verification that the private wastewater treatment system requirements of Commerce Chapter 83 and St. Croix County have been satisfied. In addition, photographs clearly showing the existing vegetation and assurance that trees were planted every 12 feet across the front of the property as viewed from the river were requested. Additional materials were provided to address the vegetation management plan and the photographs clearly showing the existing vegetation.  Cedar Corporation has reviewed the additional material and finds them satisfactory.  Cedar Corporation had not yet received verification of compliance with Commerce Chapter 83 and St. Croix County. Rob suggested that the issues that we should be focusing on tonight will be filling and grading of the site, as well as the requested removal of four existing trees.

 

A variance decision by the Board of Appeals will ultimately have to address the following issues, and these are issues that the PC should comment on:

 

1.       whether hardship has been demonstrated

2.       whether and how the public interest is harmed by granting the variance

3.       whether satisfactory evidence has been provided to ensure that the applicable core concerns of this ordinance are met if the variance is granted

4.       that and reconstructed structure or new and expanded structure for which a variance is granted will be visually inconspicuous from the river

5.       that best management practices regulation erosion and surface water degradation are required for an project for which a variance is granted

6.      that the effect on the neighborhood and property value has been considered, and that no adverse affect will occur if the variance is granted

 

Ray Knapp informed the PC that photos were attached to the information submitted by Ogden Engineering. Rob Jones asked if the trees with the ribbons were the proposed trees for removal, which was affirmed by Louie Filkins. Mr. Filkins also stated that one extra 6 inch tree may require removal, as it will have excavating done very closely on three sides of it.  Paul Mahler stated that he did not feel that the removal of these trees would significantly affect the visibility of this project from the river.

Louie Filkins handed out copies from the St. Croix County Board of Adjustment Hearing on December 18, 2008 concerning the Application for a Variance requested for this project, showing approval by the county. He also passed out an aerial photo required by the County showing the location of the structures and proposed septic replacement construction. He pointed out that there is quite a good buffer of trees between where the septic is being installed and the river, and that these trees are primarily Ironwood and Red Oak which typically hang on to their leaves, even through the winter.

 

Paul Mahler asked how they planned to get the equipment needed to the site. Mr. Filkins explained that there is a trail from Cove Road that they believe they can take a mini-excavator down without having to remove vegetation, though it will be a challenge. Their other option is to bring the equipment in by barge, which is how the other two nearby systems were done.

 

Ray asked about the approval from the County Board of Adjustments. Mr. Filkins explained that it had been approved, but with thirteen conditions. Jan Cuccia requested that the PC receive a copy of those conditions, which Mr. Filkins provided for their review, and said that a copy had been sent to the Troy Clerk, Sharon Provos.

 

Ray read the recommendation from the County for the replacement of trees, shrubs, and grasses, etc. Jan read the County’s reasons given for replacing the trees and vegetation. Ray pointed out that this was a very extensive recommendation list by the County, and that he was not inclined to add to that. He felt that the County’s recommendations seemed to be thorough, and that, for simplicity’s sake, the PC  could reference the recommendations set forth by the County. Ray asked if there were any more questions for Mr. Filkins or Rob Jones.

 

Hearing none, Ray opened the public hearing for a variance for the disturbance of slopes greater than 12% for the replacement of a septic system – Robert and Tom Lee, 190 Cove Rd., He then asked if there was anyone from the public who wished to speak on this matter. There was no one, so he then closed the hearing.

 

Paul Mahler moved that the PC recommend to the Board of Appeals the variance for disturbance of slopes greater than 12% for the replacement of a septic system for Robert and Tom Lee, 190 Cove Rd. Also that we adopt the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law that was included in the St. Croix County letter to the Lees dated December 19th , and also make the recommendation subject to the conditions stated in that letter, and also one additional one, that I might add, and that would be that any disturbance or damage done entering the property via the private footpath is repaired, and that some sort of management plan be created to avoid erosion to that path. Jan Cuccia seconded. Motion passed. All in favor.

 

Ray said that he will ask Shari to include a copy of the County’s recommendations with each packet supplied to the Board of Appeals for their meeting in March. Ray then asked that the PC members return the reports from Ogden Engineering in to the Secretary. Louie Filkins thanked the PC for moving him up on the agenda.

 

 

 

            Ray Knapp said that, as the Murphy’s were here, the PC would address item # 5 on the

            agenda, coming back to item #3.

 

5.   Riverway review/public hearing for an after-the-fact permit for a

      variance/conditional use for reconstruction of a non-conforming accessory structure

      – Andrew Murphy, 326 North Cove Rd.;

 

Ray asked that the PC take a few minutes to review the December 4, 2008 minutes, item  #6. He also asked Rob Jones to give a copy of his notes to the Applicant. Rob Jones informed the PC that this will require a variance for reconstruction of a non-conforming accessory structure, and an application for a conditional use permit, and that the variance request will be heard at the March Troy Town Board of Appeals meeting. During the December Concept Review, the Plan Commission requested the following information in addition to the original application:

     

1.       A scale drawing showing all pertinent information for the steps and the landing with details of the posts and signed off by an engineer that the footings are done to code

2.       Photos of the site taken from the middle of the river, slightly upstream and downstream of the property

3.       A construction plan for the stairways and landing

4.       An extensive library of photos showing the vegetation all around this area.

 

Cedar Corporation has reviewed the application and found that it is complete.  The variance application has two major components:

 

·         The reconstruction of a non-conforming accessory structure.  This is an after-the-fact request for a deck which appears to have been reconstructed in a reduced footprint.

·         The reconstruction of a stairway to provide pedestrian access to the river.  This is an after-the-fact request for a stairway which does not meet the geometric requirements of the section 171-J.7.

            

            Rob noted that the landing exceeds the geometric requirements of max. 40 square feet,

            requiring a variance.

           

            Rob Jones informed the PC that he received a copy of a January 6, 2009 sternly worded

            letter to the County from Carrie Stokes of the DNR regarding this application. In her letter

            she stated that a hardship was not demonstrated, and she recommended that the deck be

            removed, and the landing reconstructed.

 

            Discussion then took place among the members of the PC on the consequences of how

            this problem should be handled now, and in the future, to avoid the possibility of citizens

            making a choice to just ignore the rules and take their chances on the penalties that they

            receive. The consensus was that there should be strong consequences for non-compliance

            but not be so rigid, that riverway owners will try to circumvent the system.

 

             Ray mentioned another after-the-fact case that Carrie Stokes had referenced in her letter in which the County had taken a harder stance than the Town. He said that the County usually strongly considers staff recommendations and normally follows them.

             Paul Mahler asked if this deck and landing were to be considered as two different

             Issues? Rob Jones said that one variance can be granted touching on both issues. The Town has the option of requiring the Murphy’s to remove the deck and/or stairs and landings. Mark Mitchell said that he would probably come on the side of leaving the deck, as it does seem to be smaller and does not place an additional impact on the riverway. He would be in favor of reducing the size of the stairway landing to meet guidelines, and he also believes that a citation should be considered.

 

             Ray said that very often when the Board is approached by citizens who want to do something that does not meet guidelines, they do not see those people back. He advised that the PC be aware of the precedent being set when they review these cases.

 

             Nancy Carlson then spoke. She said that they have had a lot of communication with the County. They did not remove vegetation. The old stairs were removed, and they were not aware that the deck was a non-conforming accessory structure. She said that they can get the landing size down to 40 square feet fairly easily, and are very willing to do that.

 

             Jan Cuccia asked about the lighting. Had they changed the lighting to be conforming? Nancy Carlson replied that they had not, but she had brought some pictures of the lighting as well as some other pictures of other property’s lighting for comparison.

 

             Ray opened up the public hearing for an after-the-fact permit for a variance/conditional use for reconstruction of a non-conforming accessory structure – Andrew Murphy, 326 North Cove Road. He asked if there was anyone from the public who wished to speak. There was no one, and so the public hearing was closed.

 

             Rob Jones reminded the PC that they were dealing with 2 specific action items. First, a recommendation for a variance for reconstruction of a non-conforming accessory structure for the deck; and second, concerning the stairway, and landing, a conditional use permit for after-the-fact reconstruction of the stairway, and landing. Ray said that the conditional use permit will go before the town board, and the variance will go before the Board of Appeals. If the landing is changed to meet size requirements, the Conditional use permit will be all that is needed for that for the stairway and landing.

 

             Jan Cuccia asked if the PC would break the issues into two parts and deal with the stairs and landings first. She stated that she would like to see the Applicant rebuild the landing to meet the requirements of NR118 and our ordinance, and also change the lighting to downcast lighting, and then recommend a Conditional Use permit. The PC agreed and a motion was made by Jan Cuccia, seconded by Paul Mahler and carried to recommend to the Board of Appeals granting an after-the-fact conditional use permit for the stairs and landing, provided the landing be reduced in size to be in compliance with our Riverway ordinance and that the lighting be removed and replaced with downcast lighting. A comment was made that a citation should be issued and Ray informed the PC that the issuance of a citation would be acted on by the Town board, and that it is already on record that the PC would recommend the issuance of a citation.

 

The PC then discussed the effect of citations in dealing with this type of thing. They are a    

deterrent, but may not be strong enough in some cases to stop people from disobeying the

law when they stand to gain more than what they lose in paying a citation.

 

             Mark Mitchell motioned that the PC recommend the approval of an after-the-fact variance for construction of a non-conforming accessory structure based on the fact that the deck is smaller than the original one, no vegetation was harmed in its construction, the public interest isn’t harmed by granting the variance, the core of the ordinance is met by granting the variance, it will be inconspicuous from the river, and best management practices were used in its construction, and the effect on the neighborhood and property values was not affected, and the engineering has been approved at the Andrew Murphy property, 326 N. Cove Rd. Joe Duerre seconded. All in favor. Motion passed.

 

             Ray said that the action on these two things will take place in March.

        

3.         Riverway review/public hearing for construction in a conforming area – YMCA,    

             532 CTH F;

 

Ray Knapp requested that the PC review the January minutes, page 4, #3.

Rob Jones said this is an application for construction in a conforming area, and that this first had a concept review on July 10, 2008.

He called attention to the bulleted points stated below:

 

·         The structure setback may be reduced to not less than 40 feet from the bluffline if the structure is visually inconspicuous and utilizes earth-toned building materials.  The topographic survey dated 7/31/08 indicates that bluffline setback will be 62 feet at a minimum.

·         The applicant states that existing topography carry runoff away from the river and into a pasture where it will infiltrate. We would request that the applicant clarify how this will be accomplished and consider adding language describing the proposed method to the site plan documents.

 

             Rob stated that the PC may want to clarify the items related to runoff control, requesting 

             a definite plan regarding the grading. Ray read an approval given by the County Planning

             and Zoning group stating that they approved this as long as filling and grading is kept to a

             minimum, and runoff from the roof is directed towards the closed depression towards the

             NE . Rob also stated that to be more specific, they might request that the DNR’s

            standards for erosion control be met- including the use of silt-fence, and  re-seeding.

     

            Paul Mahler moved that we recommend to the town board a riverway building

            permit for the YMCA camp for the construction of a horse stall, approximately 96

            feet in length, with the conditions that they meet or evidence is issued that they meet

            the DNR’s technical standards for erosion control, the building is constructed in

            earth tone colors, the water from the roof is directed to the east or northeast so as

            not to flow towards the river. With those conditions stated, I think the project meets

            the intent of the riverway and will not damage the scenic or natural areas and will

            not adversely affect the public health, safety, or welfare of the town. David Wolf

            seconded.

 

            Ray then opened the public hearing for construction in a conforming area – YMCA, 532

            CTH F; No comments from the public were heard. The public hearing was closed.

 

            Jan Cuccia asked for a clarification regarding the impervious surface water- to be directed

            away from the river to the East or Northeast, would be added by a note on the site plan.

 

            A vote was taken on the motion. All in favor. Motion Passed.

 

 

7.         Building Permits/Utility Permits;

    

            There were none.

 

6.         Review & revise sections of draft Comprehensive Plan

 

         The PC did an extensive review of the draft Comprehensive Plan, which lasted about 11/2

         hours. The Town engineer, Rob Jones took note of all changes and will submit the agreed

         upon revisions back to the Town Board next Thursday. At the end of the discussion there

         was consensus of the PC that with the changes made tonight, the Comprehensive Plan is

         in a form that the Town Board could consider for a final draft for preparations for public

         hearings.  

 

8.         Committee Reports & correspondence;

 

             There were none.

                 

9.         Adjourn;

 

            Jan Cuccia motioned to adjourn. Paul Mahler seconded. All in favor. Motion passed.